Cooperating to Combat a Common Threat

Japanese Prime Minister Junichiro Koizumi sat for a 40-minute interview with Publisher Bernard Krisher on Oct 7 in Koizumi’s official residence in Tokyo.

Koizumi, a former health minister who studied at the London School of Economics, became prime minister in April 2001, pledging to change his Liberal Democratic Party and to reform Japan. His election was seen by many observers as a reflection of growing public disenchantment with the political establishment and Japan’s slow economy. In September Koizumi made a landmark visit to North Korea aimed at settling differences that may lead to normalizing relations.

Photos for The Cambodia Daily by Kaku Kurita Japanese Prime Minister Junichiro Koizumi

Bernard Krisher: What should be the relationship between the richer Asean nations toward the poorer?

Prime Minister Junichiro Koizumi: Assistance might be different from country to country. Some donors are strong in one area and others in another. Donors and recipients have also undergone different accumulated experiences. Japan must try to focus its assistance in areas of greatest need. We want to contribute to the betterment of livelihood in areas other than military. We should consider the circumstances of the recipient country and then determine how best to provide assistance in developing their market economy, promoting democracy and creating a better standard of living.

Q: Should aid be, as in the past, giving people fish or should it be teaching them how to fish?

A: It no longer suffices just to dole out money to countries in need. We should consider how the countries will survive on their own after running out of the [donated] money and materials they receive. We should come up with the most effective assistance aimed at establishing sustainability; helping countries to survive, live on their own. At international conferences, when assistance is on the agenda, I never fail to mention that while resolving poverty is important we must also look at and eradicate the root causes of poverty. Education is one important remedy. Japan, once a poor country, prospered thanks to the importance we placed on education. We provided universal education to all children from 6 to 15. We emphasized the importance of education and acted on it.

Q: There is a project in Cambodia to build rural schools that uses World Bank matching funds to double private donors’ contributions.

A: I have heard about it. With about 1.5 to 1.6 million yen ($14,000) you can build a school there and have your name on it. I believe there will be quite a few well-to-do people in industrialized countries willing to put up money for such a school. Not just in Cambodia. Schools could be built in this way in many other countries; in some, donors may be able contribute even less than 1 million yen ($10,000) per school.

Q: What effect did Sept 11 have on Asean? Has everything changed?

A: There have been significant changes in the world, especially among countries where adversarial relationships existed which are now cooperating in the battle against terrorism. We detect the existence of terrorist cells, not just in Arab countries, but in some Asean countries.

Until the Sept 11 attacks people never thought these terrorists would be a serious threat. Countries would carry out enforcement activities once in a while but never really got down to serious efforts in suppressing terrorism. The perception was terrorists were largely anti-establishment movements within a country.

Now, under the leadership of the United States, many countries are cooperating to combat a common threat. They became aware these domestic terrorists were really international terrorists acting in the name of a domestic anti-government movement.

The Abu Sayyaf in the Philippines is a good example. Many countries are cooperating with the United States in providing the US information, intelligence and working jointly to root out any cells of al-Qaida. Of course, be it Asean or whatever, such efforts will lead to greater stability in the region.

Through the cooperation from Asean countries we also seek to carry out enforcement in fighting piracy and drug trafficking.

Q: What is your vision of Asean’s long range prospect? Will it one day develop into an Asian counterpart to the European Union? With its own currency? Elimination of immigration barriers?

A: I don’t rule out such a policy if we look very far into the future. But a very long period of time will be necessary because there are far greater cultural, traditional and economic discrepancies among the Asean members than among those in the EU. The first step is to further cement and strengthen their economic cooperation and coordination while encouraging greater democracy. This comes before targeting EU-type integration.

Q: How does China fit into this picture? Is China’s remarkable economic growth affecting the Asean economies? Can they compete effectively against China?

A: Numerous people have been suggesting China is a threat, but I don’t subscribe to that. The question is how we respond to the challenges China is putting up. This is an opportunity for us to respond to the new changes, such as the rising power of China.

Twenty years ago, Western countries said Japan was a threat. But by responding to criticism from the West, through its own efforts, Japan established collaborative relationships with the international community. China acceded to the WTO and is headed toward a market economy. It is also welcoming entrepreneurs into Communist Party membership.

By moving more toward a democratic regime, China will increasingly play a role as a responsible member of the international community. Asean countries shouldn’t simply be awed by China’s power and potential capabilities but also consider how best to respond to the changing China. Asean countries will also have to make efforts to reform themselves.

Q: Production competition and the cost of products is very keen. China can produce many products at equal or lower prices than Asean countries. How can Asean meet this challenge?

Q. What do you expect to come out of this summit?

A: Japan has attached importance to Asean for two decades and that will not change. As a member of the Asian community, and through our leaders’ frequent meetings with Asean leaders—I myself feel very keenly the expectations they have for the role Japan can play. They have also expressed their appreciation in every meeting I have had with them. We have not, and will not, change our stance in attaching importance to providing assistance to Asean countries. I will follow my stated policy of “act together and advance together.”

Q: Do you think North Korea should join as a dialogue partner?

A: I’m hoping it will happen in the future but at this moment I really don’t know what to say. I feel that North Korea should make efforts.

I recently visited North Korea and we are resuming normalization talks. Through these talks Japan wishes to encourage that North Korea not isolate itself from the international community. We seek to encourage them to make responses that will make them a responsible member of the international community. Only when North Korea strikes a cooperative stance with the international community can it develop itself.

I made this point in my talks with Mr Kim Jong Il. We would like to address normalization talks with the North through coordination with South Korea and the United States. At the moment North Korea is perceived as a rogue state and a country assisting terrorism. It has been criticized very harshly by the international community as such and also in Japan.

Among the Japanese people, there is a strong sense of indignation and a deep rooted sense of mistrust towards North Korea. Many people are critical: Why should Japan negotiate with a rogue state? But I believe that it is through dialogue that Japan must try to seek peaceful resolution. I myself and General Secretary Kim Jong Il announced in Pyongyang the Japan-North Korea Pyongyang Declaration. The important thing is what was contained in that declaration will be translated into reality. We will have to try to determine that through normalization talks. Of course, cooperation with the US, South Korea, China, and Russia will be needed for some time as well.

There is the argument that there is no need to talk to North Korea, that it is necessary to pull down the North Korean regime. This would only lead to the conclusion that you can resort to arms, resort to force. It is better to resort to dialogue and encourage them to return to the international community. Tenacious efforts will be required to do that.

Q: Asean nations have a policy of non-interference in each other’s affairs. Is such a policy justified if a country is governed by such destructive leaders as Hitler, Pol Pot or Saddam Hussein?

A: It is the question of degree of intervention and interference. Japan will not resort to direct intervention such as the United States does but we have to attach importance to human rights. Circumstances vary in different countries.

Democracy, human rights and a market economy are values we share with the United States and European countries. We want to cooperate in that direction though the specific action Japan takes may be somewhat different.

Q: Would you support the intervention that Mr Bush is programming for Iraq?

A: In the first place, there should be clear cause and international cooperation. I stressed this in my meeting with President Bush in September. The 9/11 terrorist attacks and the Iraqi incursion into Kuwait led to international cooperation and coalitions. At the first stage efforts to build such cooperation would be necessary.

Q: In combating terrorism, do we risk sacrificing some human rights and restraining a free press, free speech and free movement?

A: Efforts must be made to safeguard them. It is a question of degree. This is a question of freedom and discipline.

Q: Do you envision any changes in Japan? Will freedoms be reduced to protect your security?

A: It is similar to investigations of a criminal act. In certain instances, freedom may be restricted to some extent. That applies to an emergency for national security as well. In the interest of public welfare there may be some instances where the freedom of citizens will be limited. But it is a question of degree. One can’t generalize. The degree will differ according to the seriousness of the emergency. If there is no problem and you can trust everyone, there is no need to lock your front door.

Q: You mentioned before cultures, religions and traditions differ among Asean countries and democracy differs as well. What actually binds the Asean countries if they have such different cultures and traditions?

A: The biggest factor is the market economy and free exchange of goods. That is trade. They have been improving their investment climate. This has led to, and will lead to, changes of political regimes as well. It will lead to a greater sense of assurance for business leaders as well.

Q: Some Asian leaders say Asia has different values and these should not be compared to Western values; while they all aspire to democracy they say their citizens are not ready for democracy. Do you agree that some countries are not ready for democracy and that Asian values are different from Western or liberal values?

A: If you look at religions—those practiced in Muslim countries and Buddhist countries—there are different customs and conventions. But among humans there are no major differences. Of course, any sudden cultural friction can lead to confrontation and disputes. There are also differences in the degree that women participate in society. At the very base of all these, what is important is education and international exchanges. In a closed society, people don’t know what is important. By increasing contacts with other countries, you learn about different cultures and recognize differences. International exchange and education are instrumental is making people aware of these differences.

Q: In regard to women, you have appointed many more women to Cabinet positions than previous prime ministers—two women in a row to the post of foreign minister. In Asia there are many women government leaders but in general women have a low status in the society. How do you feel about the role of women in government and society?

A: I believe that women’s growing participation in society is inevitable. Especially in developing countries where women’s social status is low. If we regard people as humans, there is essentially no difference between men and women in terms of willingness to work, or their attitude toward power or authority. Some suggest women are not interested in having power nor interested in politics.

They claim women are not interested as much in work as men are. That is total nonsense. Not just in Japan but also in other Asian countries, you won’t be able to disregard women’s increasing participation. Through greater educational opportunities women’s participation in society will become even more remarkable.

Q: Japanese prime ministers have a tradition of bringing an omiyage, a gift, when they visit foreign countries. Are you planning to bring one?

A: What kind of gift do you mean?

Q: Not a cake, fruits or flowers. Economic aid?

A: Not economic assistance but that we act and advance together. Through that, what can Japan do? Japan will continue to attach importance to Asean. Bilaterally there will be different cooperation between Japan and various Asean countries. I will stress our basic policy that Japan continues to attach importance to our relations with Asean.

This meeting takes place in Cambodia. Japan’s cooperation with Cambodia for nation building is something that Cambodia’s government has been very appreciative of. Japan also dispatched personnel to the peacekeeping operation, the PKO, in Cambodia (to provide security to the UN supervised elections in 1993). It is something that we had not experienced before. We might be able to build further cooperation from the PKO’s experience in Cambodia.